<p dir="ltr">Hallo Michael,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Vertauschung der Fühler würde ich ausschließen. Dein Screenshot in der ersten Mail zeigt doch während der Heizphase eindeutig VL > RL.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Grüße<br>
Frank</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">Am 31.03.2017 21:34 schrieb "Koch, Michael" <<a href="mailto:princemichi@gmail.com">princemichi@gmail.com</a>>:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hallo,</p>
<p>Interesse: ja habe ich definitiv!! ;-)</p>
<p>Habe nur parallel ein kleines Projekt "Gartenhaus" am laufen und
mir einen schönen Bänderriss zugezogen xD War bisserl abgelenkt -
sorry!<br>
</p>
<p>Aber zum Thema: Ich habe die Temperaturen gemessen:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
<table class="m_9043319447727313257MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:106.15pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" valign="top" width="142">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Temperaturmessung<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" valign="top" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Zeitpunkt<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" valign="top" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Ermittelte Werte im Volkszähler mit DS18B20
Sensorik<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" valign="top" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Ermittelte Werte mit IR-Messgerät am
Heizungsrohr<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" valign="top" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Tendenz<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td rowspan="2" style="width:106.15pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="142">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Fußbodenheizung<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Vorlauf<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">30.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">12:47<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">23,4°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part1.B7F3DC20.0009DD18@googlemail.com" height="164" width="219"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:red">+1,9°C</span></b><b><span><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">31.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">20:37<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">28,7°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part2.325817C3.AE662A8A@googlemail.com" height="161" width="215"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:#002060">-0,4°C<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td rowspan="2" style="width:106.15pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="142">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Fußbodenheizung<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Rücklauf<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">30.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">12:47<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">24,8°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part3.ADCFEC00.3A289026@googlemail.com" height="162" width="216"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:#002060">-1,3°C<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">31.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">20:37<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">28,3°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part4.8EA58F02.D0167ED4@googlemail.com" height="162" width="216"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:#002060">-1,1°C<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td rowspan="2" style="width:106.15pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="142">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Solar<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Rücklauf<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">30.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">12:46<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">63,3°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part5.32366459.D6EB571C@googlemail.com" height="160" width="213"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:red">+8,6°C</span><u></u><u></u></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">31.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">20:35<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">30,6°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part6.34226DF6.8D7DAE0B@googlemail.com" height="158" width="211"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:red">+1,5°C</span><u></u><u></u></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td rowspan="2" style="width:106.15pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="142">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Solar<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Vorlauf<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">30.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">12:46<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">56,1°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part7.8766EBC8.6D696F98@googlemail.com" height="158" width="211"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:red">+8,4°C</span><u></u><u></u></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:63.7pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="85">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">31.03.2017<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">20:35<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:66.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="89">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center">28,9°C<u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:175.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="233">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><span><img src="cid:part8.1B3B9F2D.1F2A391C@googlemail.com" height="161" width="214"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:41.8pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="56">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center;line-height:normal" align="center"><b><span style="color:red">+1,3°C</span><u></u><u></u></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</p>
Messtoleranzen: <br>
IR-Messgerät: +/- 1,0°C<br>
DS18B20: +/- 0,5°C<br>
Somit eine max. Differenz der Werte von 1,5°C - in der Theorie
möglich!<br>
<br>
Praktisch zweifele ich gerade noch an der DS18B20-Messung der
Fußbodenheizungsrohre. Hier ist gem. Messergebnissen evtl.
tatsächlich eine Verwechslung möglich. Ich werde das morgen noch mal
prüfen - jetzt ists mir zu spät (werde mal einen Sensor abbauen und
schauen wer weiter loggt)!<br>
<br>
Ganz komisch fand ich die Solarmessungen vom 30.03. - sehr grosse
Messabweichung. Dies konnte ich mit der heutigen Messung jedoch
nicht bestätigen....<br>
<br>
Zu Meiner Heizung evtl. noch einige Anmerkungen.<br>
- Direkte Raumtemperaturmessung an die Heizung ist nicht vorhanden.<br>
- Nur Passive Temeraturmessung welche die Stellmotore ansteuert.
Somit erfolgt die Bedarfanforderung an die Heizung. Genau dies
ermittelt die Heizung indem alle 30 Minuten die Pumpe angeschmissen
wird. Zusätzlich wird so auch die Wassertemperatur ermittelt
(deltaT)!<br>
- Wie die Heizung jedoch intern regelt - steht in einem anderen Buch
geschrieben :-)<br>
<br>
Vielen Dank und Grüße,<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_9043319447727313257moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.03.2017 um 17:22 schrieb Frank
Richter:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Hallo,</p>
<p dir="ltr">ich meinte natürlich einen elektronischen Raumregler
MIT Verbindung zur Heizungsregelung.<br>
Aber bevor wir hier weiter wild spekulieren, sollten wir
vielleicht abwarten, ob Michael überhaupt noch Interesse an
seinem Thread hat...</p>
<p dir="ltr">Grüße<br>
Frank</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">Am 31.03.2017 15:08 schrieb "Jakob
Hirsch" <<a href="mailto:jh@plonk.de" target="_blank">jh@plonk.de</a>>:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi!<br>
<br>
Am 30.03.2017 um 10:51 schrieb Frank Richter:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
"wahrscheinlich", weil ich vermute dass da noch ein
Raumthermostat im<br>
Spiel ist, aber Michaels System nicht kenne...<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Naja, die Raumthermostate machen ja auch nur die Ventile in
der Verteilung auf/zu, davon weiß die Gastherme aber ja auch
nix.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Wie ich schon geschrieben habe: Aktuelle Werte kann die
Steuerung<br>
nur bekommen, wenn die Pumpe läuft, ansonsten sieht sie
ja nur die<br>
Temperatur im Geräteinneren.<br>
Yep, da sind wir uns einig. Aber wo siehst du den Sollwert
in dem<br>
Zeitraum, in dem die Pumpe im Taktbetrieb läuft und nicht
zuheizt?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Die Solltemperatur ergibt sich direkt aus der Heizkurve, und
die ist doch unabhängig davon, ob der Brenner (oder die WP)
gerade läuft oder nicht.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Nur mit der normalen Heizkurve finde ich es schwer zu
erklären, warum<br>
die Heizung bis kurz nach 10:00 auf 27 Grad VL hochheizt und
ab dann den<br>
ganzen Tag gar nix mehr macht. Wäre die Regelung nur<br>
Außentemperatur-geführt, sollte sich der Sollwert doch
allmählich ändern.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Gibt ja noch die Hysterese, das sind ja auch ein paar Grad.<br>
<br>
Außerdem wird es ja recht schnell warm in den Zimmern, wenn
morgens die Sonne durch die Fenster scheint, die RTs lassen
die Ventile zugehen, dadurch ist auch kein Abnehmer für die
Wärme mehr da.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote></div>